Episode 1 – Amina’s Transformation Journey – From Trauma to Freedom

Welcome to a podcast that challenges, inspires, and opens doors to deeper layers of who you truly are.

In From Suffering to Self-Realization — A Primordial Shamanic Journey Back to Your True Nature, you are invited on an authentic and unfiltered developmental journey. A deeply transformative voyage that calls for courage, honesty, and an unwavering longing for freedom.

This is not just a spiritual podcast. It is a living, personal, and deeply insightful exploration of what happens when a person truly takes responsibility for their own development — and begins to awaken to who they really are.

In this first episode, we meet Amina — a woman who has walked one of the most gripping and courageous soul journeys we have ever witnessed. From a life marked by violence, trauma, existential fear, and intense identity crises, she has — through primordial shamanic practice and guidance at Yggdrasil Shamanic School — found her way back to her inner light and deepest power.

Her story is both harrowing and beautiful. Full of insights, breakthroughs, and above all — hope.

Throughout the conversation between Amina and her teacher and guide, Pål-Esben Wanvig, layer upon layer of human experience is revealed: a childhood shaped by fear and darkness, encounters with alternative communities and esoteric chaos, near-death experiences and spiritual breakthroughs, the healing of deep trauma, and the inner journey from being trapped in fear — to living with peace, purpose, and meaning.

At the heart of this episode lies a question that touches us all:

How can we free ourselves from deeply rooted belief systems that keep us locked in suffering? And what happens when we choose to meet our inner darkness with love and curiosity — instead of fear and denial?

Amina shares courageously how, through shamanic development, she was able to release the diagnosis of borderline personality disorder — after just six months of intensive inner work. This is not a miracle tale. It is a powerful testimony to what becomes possible when we dare to go all the way into our inner landscape and meet ourselves without masks.

The episode also sheds light on essential themes such as the illusion of demons and evil within the esoteric world, the importance of the Path of the Heart and true self-responsibility, the spiritual misunderstanding of “protection against negative energy,” why genuine transformation never happens through quick fixes, and how to reclaim your own authority and take back the power over your life.

This podcast is for you if you:

– Seek real depth in your spiritual practice – Want to understand yourself on a more fundamental level – Are curious about shamanism but tired of superficial “new age” spirituality – Have taken many alternative courses but still feel that something is missing – Feel an inner longing for freedom, love, and wholeness

In a time where so many get lost in external methods and promises of fast solutions, this podcast invites you back to the only place where true answers can be found.

Your own heart.

This is the first chapter in a series of more than 40 episodes where you will follow Amina in conversations filled with honesty, wisdom, humour, and unfiltered life force. Through their experiences, you will gain insight into how the primordial shamanic path of development works in practice — not as a concept, but as a lived reality.

Episode 1 – Transcription

Pål-Esben: Hi Amina, and a heartfelt welcome!

Amina: Thank you so much!

Pål-Esben: Excited?

Amina: Very! This is exciting!

Pål-Esben: Yes! We’re going to take our listeners on a remarkable journey you’ve been through over the past 18 months.

I looked back through my emails. The first time you wrote to me was at the end of November 2022. In early December, you started the basic training at Yggdrasil Shamanic School.

And that’s when things started to shift.

Through these 18 months, you’ve experienced quite extraordinary things. You started in a very difficult place. So many challenges. Trauma. Fear. Then you went through a very deep developmental process.

You’ve even become a teacher. Right now, as we’re recording this, you’ve just started your first group of students in the basic training — helping others through the same journey you yourself have walked.

We’ve just returned from a retreat in the mountains, where you also had your first deep experiences of unity.

So 18 months has been quite intense, Amina.

This isn’t just theory for you. You’ve lived it. You’ve walked through it. And you’ve emerged on the other side as a completely different person.

Amina: It’s been pretty intense.

Pål-Esben: What a transformation journey! Wow! Can you tell us a bit about how it all started?

How It All Began

Amina: Yes. And the question is: Where do you even begin?

I was at an alternative fair in Tønsberg with my own stand. There I noticed some shamans doing healing work. I asked where they had trained, and that’s when I first heard about you.

On my way home from the fair, something quite remarkable happened. It might sound a bit harsh, but I hit a deer with my car.

I’ve always — ever since I got my driver’s license at 23 — been afraid of hitting an animal. It was a very deep fear. Because I didn’t know what I would do if I saw an animal suffering or dying.

But for me, this became a profoundly shamanic experience.

What happened was that I sat there with that animal during its death transition. I gave it healing. I wasn’t afraid — I was simply present.

For me, that experience was a powerful sign. A sign of what I was about to embark upon.

When I got home and had processed this, I reached out to you and asked when you were starting the basic training. You told me it wasn’t quite set yet. So we had a conversation.

And I started pretty quickly after that.

A Turbulent Past

Amina: But the years before this had been extremely turbulent.

I had a very unstable upbringing. A lot of physical violence. Psychological abuse. Unpredictability. So much fear. Religious influences.

I really struggled with identity. So I sought out and converted to Islam when I was 13. Then Christianity. I had a stepfather who liked to scare me, so I became imprinted by darkness quite early.

I developed borderline personality disorder. It’s extremely difficult to live with.

I had children quite young. When I was 18-19, I became pregnant. My goal in life was to become an Arab housewife — and I achieved that. But I quickly realized that wasn’t actually my goal.

That was a crisis point.

That’s when I started questioning religion. And I began moving away from it.

But I had some turbulent years with violent partners. A lot of destruction, really. Then I got some help from public services to understand myself better — interruption management for borderline personality disorder.

But it was when I started training with you and began getting guidance… One thing is all the things I learned between our sessions, which I could bring into our conversations for guidance and understanding.

That’s what gave me the major breakthroughs.

I think it was about six months after I started at Yggdrasil Shamanic School that I actually lost the borderline personality disorder diagnosis.

That’s quite significant in itself. Because it’s quite something to break free from.

One of the bigger challenges when I started with you was that I was stuck in an esoteric chaos.

I had tangled myself up in thoughts like: «We’re not really human,» «We’re not really supposed to be here,» «Why should I even be here?» «If I am everything, why am I this and that?»

Learning so many different things — spiritual things, esoteric things from various sources — it created tremendous chaos within me. I remember I needed your help to get grounded again.

Pål-Esben: Yes, you really needed to sort through all of this.

You have quite a heavy background. This is really just a mild introduction to something deeply traumatic.

When you say your stepfather liked to scare you, there’s something profoundly traumatic in that. Something that can completely destroy a child.

It’s no wonder one ends up being afraid of the dark and scared of evil, the devil, and all these things. Not when you carry such imprints from childhood. Imprints no child should ever be exposed to.

You carried baggage into your adult life that was heavy to bear. And it shaped your life in profound ways.

Can you tell us a bit about what your life was like? What was an ordinary day like for Amina before we met?

The Near-Death Experience That Changed Everything

Amina: About six months before I entered your training, I was in a quite destructive relationship. About a year on and off.

About six months before I started with you, I experienced my boyfriend at the time choking me.

In a sense, I was supposed to die.

I realized I couldn’t fight anymore. So I surrendered to death.

I didn’t actually die, obviously. But for me it was a profoundly important experience. Because so much happened inside me — on a deeper level than ever before.

That experience made me start seeking more deeply into the spiritual, the sacred. I felt a greater calling. But I couldn’t quite put my finger on what or where.

So I participated in various women’s circles, moon circles. I also went on an ayahuasca retreat, where quite a lot of trauma was torn open.

I think many people do this during their seeking. You start to sense there’s something more, but you don’t know quite what. You hear about these things and try them, because you don’t have the right kind of guidance.

That’s when you can get stuck. For me, it really just became more chaos.

Pål-Esben: Yes, I understand completely. It was the same for me.

When I started moving into the esoteric many, many years ago — more than 20 years ago — I didn’t come from the chaos you came from. But I came from an academic standpoint. Where you think you know everything and actually know nothing. Arrogant. Almighty syndrome, the whole package.

All this alternative stuff was nonsense in my eyes. I was even a bit scared of these shaman things — with costumes and all that. I wanted nothing to do with it whatsoever.

And what do you do when you have no knowledge of the alternative and esoteric?

Well, you have to start trying things.

And you try one thing. I was all over — multiple places in the world looking for teachers. Learned everything from reiki to various forms of meditation, various forms of healing, drumming, and shamanism. I tried so many different things.

And became completely overwhelmed.

The problem in my case was severe burnout and really problematic health issues. Nothing got better.

You go from one thing to the next hoping «there’s the solution, there’s the solution.» Then you reach a point where you’re stressed and frustrated. Because what you’re learning doesn’t produce real results — where life actually improves.

I jumped from seminar to seminar to seminar, hoping I would find someone who could help me

Pål-Esben

Pål-Esben: I remember attending the first angel seminar more than 20 years ago. Very exciting! Very curious. Angels! It sounded exciting. I didn’t believe in it, but it was fascinating to be introduced to angels and angel healing.

It was a wonderful experience. Met wonderful people.

But then you come home and start talking to the angels — and nothing really happens. It’s pleasant, but nothing changes with my health. Nothing changes with my depression. Nothing changes with my frustration.

Nothing happens, except that you’ve learned something interesting.

That was what was difficult for me in the beginning. In a landscape that was completely confusing. I jumped from seminar to seminar hoping I would find something that could help me.

The Importance of a Deep Developmental Process

Amina: And that’s where I see the importance of a developmental process, like you’ve talked about.

I don’t think I would have had the same result if this journey had taken a month and a half.

I see how crucial this process has been. To try and fail. To learn through new insights. To let wisdom have time to ripen.

My partner asked me the other day — because I woke up at night feeling a bit unwell, had a lot of pain in my body. So he asked: «Are you feeling bad or are you feeling good?»

I said: «I’m feeling really good, but it just doesn’t feel like it.»

He said: «So you mean intellectually you know you’re okay, but your body isn’t quite okay?»

I said: «No, it’s not that either. For me, I feel that I’m deeply okay. Even if I might be sick or have pain somewhere or have an uncomfortable night.»

When I can achieve that, other people can too. Because life will keep happening.

I think many people are looking for that thing that makes no negative or difficult things happen in life. I believed that too at one point.

But I read a quote the other day:

It’s not about feeling better, but about becoming better at feeling

Amina: That one hit home.

Pål-Esben: Yes, right? And that’s what we can talk about here.

What’s really the difference between how we started — and how most people start — where you’re searching, taking a workshop here, an evening seminar there, attending a weekend seminar there…

Compared to entering a deep developmental process?

These are two completely different things.

Such a process isn’t completed in a weekend or in six weeks. It’s a continuous journey toward a specific destination.

You can learn many exciting methods and techniques. But methods and techniques only scratch the surface.

If we’re going to go deep, we must also go into our own personality. We need to clear out things that are blocking us. For instance, what prevents us from setting our hearts free. What makes us filled with resentment, frustration, anxiety, and so on.

This is perhaps the most difficult thing a human being goes through — what we call finding the path of the heart. Because you encounter harsh things within yourself.

The things you’ve gone through — they’re tough things. Things that lodge in the body, in the nervous system, in our genes. When anxiety arises, it feels uncontrollable.

It often leads to certain behaviors. Being perhaps a bit harsh with your kids. Getting irritated when someone says something you don’t like and immediately going on the defensive.

You live in your hamster wheel. Where the primate in us runs things almost on autopilot.

Learning one method or technique doesn’t help much there. Or a hundred methods and techniques.

You can learn so much about angels and drumming and whatever it may be — astrology, NLP, and so on. All of that can be good.

But the deep things within us, which control so much of our lives on autopilot — that requires something completely different to dissolve.

The Teacher-Student Relationship: Trust and Challenges

For that, you need a teacher and a developmental process over time. And that means things can become uncomfortable sometimes.

When you’re at a seminar learning about angels or astrology, it’s pleasant. Lots of exciting stuff. But you’re never confronted with your real, deep shadow sides.

If that were brought up at a seminar, it would go bananas.

A person cannot set themselves free, in my experience. You can’t become a truly happy person — someone who finds meaning in whatever happens in daily life — without going in and working on this.

And it’s impossible to do alone. Since we’re governed by fear, ignorance, and the almighty syndrome. We’re subjective when it comes to ourselves.

What was the most uncomfortable thing you experienced in the beginning with me? Because from the student’s perspective, walking a developmental path is on one hand liberating, but on the other hand it can also be difficult.

Amina: There are several things that have been brought up in me through the training journey. The word «training» becomes quite inadequate, because it goes so much deeper than that.

I’ve really been tested multiple times. When I’ve been triggered by things you’ve said, or when old patterns have tried to take over…

I think perhaps the most important thing for me has been the trust I have in you. That I trust you. I know that whatever you say or do, it comes from a good place.

I’ve experienced that firsthand.

I’m quite good at seeing when something uncomfortable comes up in me — that it’s about me, not about the other person.

You’re quite direct sometimes. In the beginning, it stirred something in me. Because I have experience with quite direct men — aggressive, manipulating men.

You are absolutely not an aggressive or manipulating man. But I sensed that here was someone with strength, steadiness, good character.

Those energies may have reminded me of earlier men in my life. It was a bit challenging, but I learned so much from it. I’ve seen that you can actually have yang energy, have fire, have a backbone, have steadiness — be a man with a capital M — without it being negative.

There’s so much love behind it too.

Pål-Esben: You’re wrapping this in a very positive light. But it isn’t always that simple.

In a deep developmental process, it’s the teacher’s job to show you what’s blocking you. And that’s not always pleasant for the ego. Which wants to be right and wants everything to be pleasant and energy and light and love.

Then suddenly you meet yourself. That you have a god complex. Or that you perhaps don’t treat the people around you in a loving way.

One of the things that stirred in you at the beginning — which I remember well — was when we started talking about evil and demons. That was difficult. Because things came up where you didn’t quite agree with me.

Can you tell us about that?

The Fear of Evil and Demons

Amina: It’s something I thought I had neatly shelved when I entered the alternative scene. This stuff about negative energies and demons. That someone could somehow come and harm us. That we have demons in us.

When I was around seven years old, I moved to America with my mom. She had met a man there.

And he liked to scare me.

What he did was put on scary movies. Especially demon movies like «The Exorcist,» where there’s a girl who gets possessed by a demon and then there’s an exorcism.

Then he would lock me in a dark room afterwards. He would put on masks and come out and scare me. This went on continuously for about a year.

He had conversations with me where he talked about how if I wasn’t a good girl, I would go to hell.

I was extremely scared that year. I slept alone in a room, in a completely new country where everything was unfamiliar. That year I believe I accumulated tremendous fear.

When I returned to Norway after about a year — I was sent alone on a plane — I didn’t dare sleep with the lights off.

The first time I did that was maybe two years ago.

Throughout my entire childhood, I was afraid that something in the darkness would come and get me. I later entered religions — first Christianity, then Islam, which I was in for about ten years — where it was also very much about how the devil could enter us, take us over, and make us do stupid things. Heaven and hell and so on.

When I entered spirituality again — which was supposed to be a liberation — I was also met with a lot of talk about negative energies.

It was as simple as «if you sleep with that person, you get all of that person’s energies inside you, and the energies of everyone they’ve slept with, and they’ll be in you for nine months.» So if you do something foolish, it’s not really your fault — it’s these energies’ fault. So then we need to cleanse ourselves.

When I started training with you, one of the first things I encountered was exactly that — fear. I saw disturbing beings on my inner screen. So much was illuminated within me.

We had conversations where you said that demons don’t exist.

I said: «But if angels exist, then surely demons must exist.»

I had also had a hypnosis session not long before I started with you, where a demon emerged that was lodged in my first chakra — the demon from when I was seven. It spoke, it had its own complete identity and everything.

But something I understand now in retrospect is that these parts represent something entirely different. They represent various parts within ourselves.

The most important thing I’ve learned is that darkness isn’t dangerous. It’s actually wonderful.

Amina

Light vs. Darkness: A New Understanding

Pål-Esben: I experience this very, very often with people who come to me. That they have some form of fundamental fear based on a belief system they have. It can be part of the culture they live in.

They’ve been told that external sources cause their problems. The external sources — especially in esoteric circles — can be anything from karma to evil spirits, demons, people casting negative energy at you.

People become very fixated on the idea that external sources cause their problems.

And that’s a huge, huge misunderstanding.

It leads people into a hamster wheel where they believe external sources cause their problems. And they have no power except learning to protect themselves.

It’s one of the most well-known areas in the esoteric — when protection is offered. Everything from special methods, energy shields, everything to protect you from negative energies.

This is obviously a big problem. Because protection will never lead to any solution. It only makes you weaker and weaker.

We see this through the «cleanliness syndrome» with children. Children who grow up in a sterile home without bacteria develop very poor immune systems as adults. While children who grow up on farms — where it’s impossible to keep things sterile — have much better and stronger immune systems.

When you have the idea that you need to protect yourself from everything, your energy system becomes weak. It makes things worse.

This is unfortunately something that comes up far too often. This idea that others, preferably invisible sources, are the cause of my problems.

My experience through all these years is that it’s definitely not the case — when we look at reality.

I’ve worked actively with shamanism for so many years. I’ve never encountered evil there. Never met a devil or demon or dark energies coming to get me.

Never experienced it.

But I have met humans who have evil in them. Who try to destroy other people. I’ve never experienced a metaphysical being coming to get me.

So the challenge — when you’re fear-oriented in the esoteric, when you have something fear-related — is that it’s of course very easy to gather people.

«Come to my seminar, and I’ll teach you to protect yourself against evil energies that are the cause of your problems!»

Great marketing. But it’s not good. Because it takes away a person’s ability to reclaim their power.

And in your case, you were completely convinced. You had this belief system from two religions, from your experiences, from the fear and everything you’d been through. You were so conditioned that it simply was that way.

And then you enter the esoteric world and get confirmation here and there that yes, that’s how it is. There are external things that will come and get you, and you must learn to protect yourself.

But that’s not how reality works.

Evil exists only in humans. There are no other beings in our biosphere that possess evil. But humanity — that’s where you find devilry and evil.

The key is not to protect yourself from darkness. The key is to light the flame within yourself.

For where light exists, darkness cannot be.

That’s the only thing you need to learn.

You need to understand this and work with your own belief system. Question it. Because I always say: You can believe elsewhere, but not when you’re with me. Here you must sit down and think, gather experiences, and then draw your own conclusions.

So what we’ve worked on — as an example here — is identifying where the fear comes from. Where does this fear most likely originate? When we look at your conditioning and so on.

And then: Let’s try to look at this from a different angle. Instead of blaming external forces for creating your problems, let’s go inward. Let’s try to ignite the light within you and see how that feels.

That’s been our path. And it has set you free from this darkness. Today you are the master of yourself. You’re taking your power back. You’re not afraid of the boogeyman out there. And you’ve perhaps noticed that you don’t need any protection — because it’s about igniting the light.

The key is not to protect yourself from darkness. The key is to light the flame within yourself. For where light exists, darkness cannot be

Pål-Esben

What Is a «Demon» Really?

Pål-Esben: What is this «demon» people feel? Because it feels real. You feel like something is entering you, something dark. Some feel it has a voice.

What is that?

Well, it’s suppressed parts of ourselves. It’s suppressed parts of our personality — subpersonalities — that have been split off or suppressed through, for example, a traumatic event or conditioning. And which may also carry karmic links.

These are parts of ourselves that have been split off through trauma. Which we’ve unconsciously distanced ourselves from. And which then create these conflicts.

Hell is one of the most brilliant inventions! I’m totally impressed by the religious folks who invented hell. With it, they’ve controlled most of the world into believing their dogmas — because people are so afraid of going to hell.

Hell doesn’t exist, of course. But you can create your own hell. That’s entirely possible — through suffering.

When you’ve been conditioned to believe the devil is dangerous, and you feel something inside you, it may be a split-off part of yourself. A part that’s been suppressed. That has been given a certain amount of energy, a certain space.

When it gets triggered in daily life, it rises to the surface. And you notice the emotions connected to it.

But there are no external forces. There’s no one sitting around casting demons at you.

Psychosomatics and Cultural Conditioning

Pål-Esben: There are people who try to project negative energy at others. «Oh, I hate that person, I hate that person, and I’m sending energy!» But that’s childish stuff that obviously has no effect — as long as you don’t believe it has an effect.

Because that’s really the problem within a culture. Let’s take Haiti as an example. There we have a culture that’s heavily influenced by voodoo. And there are stories of people dying if a voodoo priest has cast black magic on them.

The story that someone can literally die — that’s completely true. Or that you can become seriously ill. That can happen.

But it’s 100% psychosomatic.

Because there you’ve grown up in a culture… So when you see, for example, a goat’s head hung on your door, you know a voodoo priest has cast a death spell or whatever it is on you. And you become seriously ill.

When you’ve been conditioned with this throughout your life, and you truly believe it, and then you see this goat’s head on your door — a powerful psychosomatic reaction occurs that can make you sick.

In modern medicine, psychosomatic reactions are very well defined. We know that fear can lead to physiological problems. We know that various belief patterns can lead to this. We know that you can take sugar pills that contain nothing whatsoever and create a positive psychosomatic reaction where you suddenly recover — the placebo effect.

So our mind and our brain are incredibly powerful in creating our own reality. For better and for worse.

Pål-Esben: But again — if these voodoo priests practicing destructive magic in Haiti were so incredibly powerful, I think Trump wouldn’t still be alive. I think Putin probably wouldn’t be either. I think there are many who lead countries around the world who would definitely be seriously ill.

Because then anyone could pay 10,000 euros to a voodoo priest, and they would do anything. But Haiti is actually one of the poorest countries on this planet.

So there’s no power there — except within the culture you grew up in. Because you deeply believe that’s how it is.

That’s when such a voodoo priest has power. That’s the problem here.

Our mind and our brain are incredibly powerful in creating our own reality. For better and for worse.

Pål-Esben

How Children Are Conditioned — And What Gets Suppressed

Pål-Esben: And in your case — through what you’ve shared about your upbringing — especially when it involves small children. Because they’re so easy to condition. For better and worse.

When a child has been conditioned day in and day out in such a belief system, it suppresses certain parts of yourself. Parts of yourself that want to be free. Parts of yourself that seek joy and meaning and happiness.

They become suppressed. Rejected.

Then the painful becomes what controls and has power in life. And these things create conflicts.

We must see which parts of us have been suppressed. Which parts of us have been locked away in various psychological rooms. Which parts of us have we rejected through traumas.

We need to look at this and become aware.

And that’s what we did together over two to three months. We discussed this. You took what I said home with you, thought about it. Then you came back with your own conclusions, and we talked further.

For me, it’s not about saying «this is how it is, period.» It’s about helping you to think clearly for yourself.

In shamanism, when we become aware of split-off parts of our personality, and we’ve identified them, done fundamental healing around them, adjusted our internal map to match reality — then we can do things like soul retrieval. Where we bring back these split-off parts of ourselves, so we become whole again.

In shamanism, we find unique tools, methods, and philosophy to do this work.

Obviously, this was difficult. Because this is perhaps the most difficult thing you’ve gone through with me — where you meet yourself at the door with your fear.

Amina: There have been sleepless nights over several months. Anxiety. What scared me most was that these so-called demons and darker parts became more and more visible the more I worked on them.

I thought: «Why should I continue with this then?»

But I realized we don’t get past our stuff until we truly meet its depth. Whether it’s «demons» and darkness, or destructive personality traits or values within ourselves — you must meet it truly.

You haven’t just told me that demons don’t exist. You’ve really explained why — at a much deeper level. You’ve gone through what happens in a human being, where there are logical reasons why this doesn’t exist, and logical reasons why I believed it.

I’m very grateful for all the difficult things I’ve gone through. Because it enables me now to help other people through the same.

I’ve been met by both clients and students who have felt these things, and I see them at the very beginning of meeting darker parts of themselves. I can recognize where they are. And I see that they need to realize things themselves and walk their own path.

But I also see that there are aha-moments waiting around what they learn through Yggdrasil Shamanic School.

Amina: I’ve also had clients who have struggled to acknowledge that they don’t have a demon in them. Because it’s — as you said at the beginning — so easy to blame something else.

«It’s just that part of me, but that part of me isn’t really me. Because it’s a demon that I have to cleanse out once a week, maybe twice a week.»

And then the question is: How long are you going to keep cleansing it out?

Pål-Esben: Good business! I mean, those who cleanse out demons — that’s good business. But that’s not how reality works. And that’s the challenge.

The True Shamanic Death

Pål-Esben: We live in a world that’s very fear-driven. We’re driven by fear and anxiety. It’s part of being human of course, but in the world we live in now there’s so much fear and anxiety.

Those who beat the anxiety drum easily gather people: «Come to me and learn to protect yourself.» But it’s something completely different to actually find solutions to suffering.

Ultimately, it’s about setting ourselves free. Free from fear and anxiety and uncertainty. So that we can feel our hearts bubbling every day. So that we can feel joy in everyday life. So that we are happy people living with meaning.

That’s what this is about — a deep, genuine personal developmental process.

And it’s absolutely necessary if you’re going to walk a deep shamanic developmental path.

If you’re full of hatred and resentment and anxiety, none of the magnificent light beings want anything to do with you. They don’t listen to anyone who says: «I don’t like my neighbor. Hey, Grandfather Wolf, go do something bad to the neighbor who wronged me.»

They’ll just say: «Stupid.»

Humanity is perhaps not the most intelligent race in this universe. We try to control everything — even the magnificent light beings who are around us to help us — with our ego.

But not one of them will help and support us as long as we’re governed by ego, fear, hatred, and control.

The true shamanic death is about positioning the ego as the soul’s advisor, rather than the soul’s ruler.

Pål-Esben

Pål-Esben: When you walk a deep shamanic developmental path, it’s absolutely necessary to clear up these things. That’s what the true shamanic death is.

Not some extreme processes in a sweat lodge or being dropped off half-naked in the forest to survive for a week or two. That has nothing to do with a shamanic death.

A shamanic death is about positioning the ego as the soul’s advisor. Rather than the soul’s ruler.

Without going through a fundamental developmental process around these things in our lives, no deep shamanic developmental process can happen. Then you’re at the surface — you learn some techniques, methods, some drumming, talk to the spirit guide or power animal.

And that’s nice. There’s nothing wrong with it.

But it has nothing to do with the unique developmental process you’ve been through. Which totally changes a life. Which revolutionizes how you live and experience your life.

That’s what this is about, in my view. A total transformation of how you exist in the world. Not just what you do, but who you are.

The very foundation of existence changes.

The Path of the Heart in Practice

Amina: It’s truly the path of the heart. This is something new I got to experience when I became familiar with primordial shamanism.

«Being in love» was something I experienced one way before. Then supposedly everything would work out as long as you sat in love and felt into your heart.

But as you’ve talked about a lot: What has practically changed in your life after you entered love?

To actually understand and experience that love is something practical — it’s not just thinking about your heart and that we’re all one. It’s about how you live it out.

You can easily get lost in this notion that «everything is love.» But what does that actually mean?

It’s something very practical.

I often hear people say: «Oh, love is so great, you should be in love too! You can’t say things like that, you’re not in love!»

But I call a spade a spade. Not a spade a plate.

It’s not about «being in love» — it’s about what we live out in our daily lives. Because that’s where the truth shows whether you’re in love or not.

How do you treat your children? How do you treat your partner? How do you treat your friends? How do you treat yourself? How do you treat the people around you?

That’s something very practical.

You can see whether a person truly lives from the heart — and not just that they’ve been to an esoteric course and «been in the light.» That feeds into what we call the shaman trap syndrome, which we’ll talk more about in another episode.

That’s why we have something at our shamanic school called the nine pillars for finding the path of the heart. We start with becoming a master of gratitude. Number two: becoming a master of forgiveness. Number three: becoming a master of self-regulation.

And then we continue.

We have very practical things you need to learn to be able to follow your heart in daily life. And that’s where you meet resistance.

It’s not about being in love — it’s about what we live out in our daily lives.

Pål-Esben

Amina: It has had profound significance for me. My relationships with the people around me have changed greatly.

The world perhaps hasn’t changed. But I have changed.

My filter — how I see the world and people — has shifted. And then I see: «Oh, I have personal responsibility over my own life!»

That’s a bit scary at first for many people. But when you realize it, experience it, and see what it’s like to live it out — then you gain so much more power over yourself.

But it requires truly daring to meet the crappy parts of yourself. To actually say: «I say I’m a nice person, I say I’m fair, I say I have these and these values. Did I have them just now? Oh no, but I’d really rather not admit that to myself.»

These are the parts we just want to push back down.

But I’ve experienced how important it is to notice all the parts of me that haven’t been about walking the path of the heart. Not to beat myself up — it’s been important not to whip myself, as you often refer to — but rather see it as an insight I can build on.

Amina: So it requires a path of self-development. It takes great courage for a person to look at everything that lives within them.

I think many have attitudes where they say: «No, I don’t think like that.» And yet they really do deep down. And they know that if they express what they actually believe and think, they’d seem a bit foolish — because you can’t say that.

But those parts are there for a reason. And I think many don’t really understand why they’re there either — these inner thoughts and values.

Pål-Esben: We’re conditioned by much more — both in DNA and epigenetics — perhaps more than we often think or are aware of. It’s part of being in our society. Part of how we’re raised. We’re all conditioned more or less alike.

Then we reach a point where we say: Maybe it’s time to step out of this limited way of living. Maybe it’s time to set myself free and see reality as reality is — instead of being in that famous hamster wheel where most of my actions, thoughts, and feelings run on autopilot.

Maybe it’s time to become a conscious, awakened human being.

The Path to Full Liberation

Pål-Esben: That’s what my wish is for you and your fellow students — to guide you all the way, to full liberation. What’s called spiritual enlightenment, awakening and unity.

But for that to happen — for you to have full access to your timeless and spaceless nature, your whole nature — you must first clear away everything that surrounds the heart. All the fear-driven behavior.

Otherwise you won’t be able to experience these things.

As long as our actions, thoughts, and feelings — both conscious and unconscious — are governed by society and society’s conditioning about power and control and anxiety and fear, the more we’re locked into our straitjacket. Limited by time and space.

To break out of this straitjacket, we must unravel the things that bind us. To be able to set ourselves free.

And that’s actually logical.

It’s one of the side effects of walking such a genuine, deep developmental process like you’re doing. It’s not for those who are afraid of the dark. It takes courage — especially the hardest part: meeting the muck within yourself, acknowledging that it’s reality, and then beginning to change it.

For that, we have lots of exciting methods, techniques, and philosophy.

As long as our actions, thoughts, and feelings are governed by society’s conditioning about power and control and fear, the more we’re locked into our straitjacket.

Pål-Esben

Pål-Esben: For me, it’s an honor and a joy to be part of this journey — both with you and with everyone else who takes this step.

To see people transform their lives. To see them become free from what has held them captive for years, sometimes their entire lives…

That’s what drives me. That’s the meaning of my work. Not to create dependency, but to create freedom. Not to give people the answers, but to help them find the answers within themselves.

And you are a shining example of what’s possible. From where you started to where you are today — it’s nothing less than a revolution. An inner revolution that has changed everything.

Closing Words

Pål-Esben: Now we’re going to wrap up this episode. When you look at your process from the eagle’s perspective — when you look down at yourself through these 18 months — what do you conclude today?

Amina: What I can say in closing is that no matter how difficult life is, there’s a way out of it.

I’ve experienced that for every problem, there’s actually a solution. And I truly don’t believe it’s meant for us humans to walk around here suffering.

There’s always a way out of difficult things. That’s my experience, at least.

And what I’ve learned through this process — the most important thing — is that change is possible. Deep, lasting change. Not just learning to manage the symptoms, but actually transforming what lies at the root.

It’s possible to go from a life filled with fear, anxiety, and chaos to a life where your heart bubbles with joy — even on the difficult days. It’s possible to find meaning and peace and contentment. Not because life suddenly becomes perfect, but because you yourself have changed.

And that’s what I wish for everyone listening to this — that they know it’s possible. No matter where you are right now, no matter how dark it looks, there’s a way.

No matter how difficult life is, there’s a way out of it. There’s always a way out of difficult things.

Amina

Pål-Esben: Wise words, Amina. Until next time!

Amina: Thank you!